Francis AKA W/U - Art is in the Eyes - Noise of the Broke Boys Episode 019

Noise of the Broke Boys Episode 019

Francis AKA W/U talks about his new album Acuestate and shares his insights into art culture and creativity.

 

The album, Acuestate is used as a backing track to this entire podcast. Peep  the full album on Soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/1w_u/sets/acuestate

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A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.

[Music]

this episode of noise of the broke boys

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and now onto the show

[Music]

in this episode i talk with an amazing

artist

this guy always does a great job with

every project he puts together

not only is he a dope dancer but a

talented music producer as well

he recently released a new album titled

aquastade

that i included as a backing track to

this show

i encourage you to listen to the album

in its entirety outside of the show

as it is a tremendous feat of musical

brilliance

links to the album are included in the

description

please enjoy the episode with my friend

francis aka

with you of the fourth world

[Music]

welcome back everybody to another hour

of flaming

pollution i am your host kurt the hurt

and i have a special guest today he is a

true artist in every sense of the word

mr francis aka with you

of fourth world how you doing man i'm

good man thanks for having me

yeah dude i've been wanting to get you

on for like so long

um because obviously this is like an art

podcast and i feel like you are one of

my friends that

really embodies that word of being an

artist

it's like it's like everything you do it

seems like it's a

work of art almost you know what i mean

thanks man

what do you think about that i think

i'm lucky i feel really lucky i mean

yeah i'm so lucky i don't know what life

would be like without that you know

it would be a lot uh less meaningful

yeah i think art yeah it really is like

a meaningful thing it's like when you're

putting a lot of

effort into something and and really uh

i guess throwing throwing a piece of you

into everything you do and i see that

that's what you do and that's why

i really enjoy like all the work you do

which obviously is like music and dance

and

other things like that so um yeah uh so

another reason why i got you on here is

because

you just released a new album um which

hopefully i can pronounce this right

acoustade is that right

yeah it's not too bad yeah it's uh which

means uh

to like lie down it's like if you're

telling someone to lie down but

the way that i understand it um is like

you know lie down like rest

you know go to sleep you know hmm yeah

is there what was the meaning behind

that

yeah that was something where it's like

um growing up

it's something that i would just hear a

lot from like usually my grandma or my

mom like

to be like go to sleep oh you're

stressed or you're

whatever you're going through whatever

you like lie down like take a nap

asleep you know like it'll be you know

i don't know i thought of it as like

synonymous with like you know if you

if you go to sleep right now maybe you

know uh things will be better tomorrow

or like

help with your stress you know with

coping and stuff yeah

yeah kind of like you know it it'll tone

your emotion down a little bit

definitely like in the moment you're

like i want to get angry or whatever

get get really sad or something but

sometimes you just need to kind of like

chill a little bit and let let it brew

in your mind and you

you know kind of yeah you're all amped

up or you know you're going to feel some

type of way in the moment but yeah

i guess that's a pretty appropriate uh

title for an album that is like well you

kind of have everything in there like

kind of like emotionally

it's it's it you got see

when when i first read it aqua stadi i

was like oh this must mean

major bops and jams and bangers because

that's what

i'm hearing in this album

but obviously uh it has another meaning

but

um but yeah uh

it seems like an appropriate title for

an album because it's kind of like

that's what you're doing when you're

listening to music is you're kind of

chilling out and like

taking soaking in the moment soaking in

the mood soaking in the sounds

and yeah tight um yeah exactly

yeah exactly like you're able to um

like get into a place where you're like

comfortable enough and like open enough

to

to let that kind of steer you know

because so much of the day right we're

like

i feel like we're especially like in our

society we're kind of like

we tend to be like or like what's

incentivized is like being goal oriented

and being like

these like poor things on your list and

like knocking them out but

to be in a space where you can uh let go

of that for a little bit and let

you know another part of your senses

take you somewhere

that's like yeah i think that's what's

cool about it

um and that's what i hope that like

people could get into a place

of so that you know they could maybe

yeah hopefully get like just transported

to some cool places that

like don't even exist you know like in

the world you know but you can

you're creating you know like creating

your mind to get yeah

that's tight yeah i know yeah yeah yeah

so i know we're going to talk about this

later but

you're a med a med school student and

um i imagine that there's a lot of

pressure in your life

a lot and it seems like that probably

really influences your music

would you say yeah that's true oh

definitely yeah yeah so much

so much pressure like yeah i don't even

have the words for it yeah definitely

and like yeah that's like a

you know obviously like pain and all you

know all the different emotions that we

can experience like can you know have

the things that come with that but i

think also like if you're

if you're even just trying to show up to

to try to make something or try to

just do something like creative like

you're always gonna it's always gonna be

fulfilling you know even if you don't

have something to show for it you know

and so yeah

yeah definitely no shortage of pressure

yeah definitely

yeah yeah so i wanted to ask you

the inspiration for the album was there

anything like particular behind it i

mean it definitely seems like you got

uh particularly in the first track it

seems like there's a lot of kind of like

sound recordings and i it's

i forget which song it was but one of

them had it almost sounded like you

recorded from

like maybe one of like a procedure

so i don't know it was like kind of an

interesting thing it was a little hard

to hear but i was like oh there's

something

into the into this so i could really

sense that there was maybe something

like behind everything

yeah yeah there were i mean there

are so many things like i i don't know i

think like

when i even start i think like i like

first off i like um

like you know how video games are stuff

or like different shit like there would

be like easter eggs or movies too right

like yeah

i like the hardcore fans would be like

oh shit you know like that's a reference

to whatever

like oh my god it's mad funny yeah and

so like i

i love doing that and i would like sort

of like

put these little like audio snippets or

things like that that are easter eggs

from my life but also i think things

that um

you know other people might relate to or

have

so like for example like i said i don't

know if you heard of the anime like

demon slayer

but like like some shit you know i don't

know just stuff like that everywhere but

yeah but the um

yeah a lot of audio snippets that are

like personal to me so it's like

it's almost like um i don't have the

words to

like like eloquently like express

everything that i'm feeling but then

like

i'm using all these different like

snippets from like you know whether it's

like a pathology professor talking about

the spleen or if it's like

um you know if it's like somebody

talking about

uh having trouble sleeping or anxiety or

like depression or

or like you know like just you know

all these sounds that are just trying to

convey like the things that i'm trying

to work through

but also like yeah and tell the story in

that way and i think um

yeah and then the i think to answer your

question i think

the way i thought about it uh in terms

of the album is like how you know some

there are a lot of different ways uh

that people make an album or

think about an album but one that i

learned about was like

literally like a more like a

chronological story kind of flow and i

thought that that was a good idea

um very good way to like approach it and

so like

it's literally the album starts with you

know my mom

like telling me to go to sleep and then

and then each song is sort of like

getting deeper and deeper into like you

know the stages of like sleep or

whatever

yeah where yeah and so um to the point

where you are dreaming and that's why

like you're at a place where you can you

can go to all these different places

that don't seem connected but they are

in a way

interesting your brain right it's your

dream it's your it's your um

it's your vision it's your thoughts

right it's like right you're like you

know um

some people say that uh you know when

you sleep you know like

changing or each time you think about a

memory it's constantly changing like a

book on a shelf you know

yeah yeah you get all these crazy

combinations and permutations and shit

so

each song is kind of like that you know

it's just a different permutation a

different like

dream and it's a and yeah and then

that's why the last song is sunrise

because it's literally like

the sun is coming up and you just had

this night of crazy ass dreams yeah

and things you're thinking about and

then you wake up and that's the end of

it you know

that's really tight now that you explain

that i really

see it in in the out or hear it in the

album that's that's really tight

dude yeah i i could tell that there was

something behind it all because i was

like oh dude there's just like

it has this it has just some yeah maybe

it's just the easter eggs i was hearing

in it but i was like oh man there's

definitely something going on with this

that

that i don't quite understand yet so

yeah

i've listened to it probably about like

three or four times now so i'm gonna

have to listen to it again with this in

mind and like

and then thanks man i'll try to try to

see if i can

see and get anything deeper into that um

yeah

and so you going back to like what you

said earlier

uh you said your mother was the one that

you took the snippet from in the

beginning

oh yeah she literally just says like um

like she's like go to sleep you know my

son go to sleep

yeah for some reason i was thinking that

was your grandma because you had you

i know that you've like put a lot of

audio clips from her before

yeah so um she before she passed away

she was

living in wisconsin and um we had a

family friend who

she was a she was a music teacher and so

she had all these songs like memorized

on the piano

and we had a family friend that like

helped her record some of those songs

and they were thankfully like i had like

uh they were burned on a cd and i like

was able like save all the songs on my

computer so yeah i

yeah it was just like a fun challenge

you know like trying to like sample my

grandma it's almost like you're

collaborating with your

grandparent you know yeah and and so

yeah she

there she is in the first um the first

track the

um yeah the very first track after the

introduction so okay

yeah yeah and she was in she's been in i

think every project i made

in some way dope yeah no that that's

that's really

uh i don't know touching i guess that

you kind of have a piece of like your

history in all these songs and it's some

it's obviously

it's obviously she's obviously a person

who's had a huge influence on you and

and your music and

and putting a little piece of that is

like is really a touching thing

i don't know yeah um it makes it more

gratifying like

yeah it's like because i mean like maybe

i'm getting too meta or whatever right

now but it's like ultimately it's like

we do all this stuff and then and then

you know begs the question like what for

like why you know why are we doing all

this stuff

what is it all for what's the purpose of

it you know and like um

you know the answer to that and

obviously you know you get a thousand

different answers from everybody but for

me like i think

i think um yeah being able to make it

personal being able to just

i don't know it's another way of like

sifting through like my feelings or my

experiences and so that's helpful for me

so you know for somebody else maybe it

is too but and if it is that's great you

know i think

it could be helpful to people so yeah

yeah so

is that is that one of the main goals

that you have in in

like your music or i guess in any of

your art is to to have some kind of like

feeling or have some sort of yeah

reaction when

when someone is like viewing it or

listening to it

yeah i mean i would just hope that it

could

it could resonate it could connect in

some way like i don't really know how

how what that would look like or

whatever but you know um

but once in a while you know i get a

message from someone and they'll say

something like that and

and it's always interesting to hear what

they say or what that what they picked

out or what they

you know they felt but i think yeah i

mean

if if like a bunch of if right if this

just random like crap load of sounds

that have just been mashed together can

make somebody

feel something or rethink through a

situation or like

move past something you know difficult

or whatever it is you know or maybe get

them interested in like oh

and be like i've never heard of this

sound like where is this from

you know stimulating curiosity or like

um these things that like i think for me

like in my transition adulthood

sometimes i'm like

holding like i'm holding on for dear

life you know curiosity about the world

or like

being in awe about like a you know the

moon or something you know

like if you can like stifle or not

stifle if you can

um give that to somebody if you can like

reignite like a passion or something

that they had forgotten about that they

used to really love

i mean and just get someone excited

about something too i think like that's

you know that's always great you know

like so that's really the biggest thing

i think

and then just obviously you know making

people want to you know dance or like

just feel funky you know like feel feel

their soul you know however that

you know i mean just be like what out of

body yeah oh yeah yeah

no it kind of like it it it

captures their soul for a second yeah

it's it's yeah it's really interesting

how music does that because it

like you said it is just a like a random

assortment of sounds and noises but

for some reason when it's put in this

you know

melodic pattern we go oh man i this

ignites a mood in me and now you know

all this emotion kind of sparks up and

now

you know i don't know i've

it's it's such an interesting phenomenon

and i've been trying to learn a little

bit more about why that happens but

it's i don't know it's something that i

don't know if it's well studied actually

in

like you know in science or what but

it's such a cool thing going on

yeah i mean i've i've definitely nerded

out on some of that stuff and there is a

whole like discipline of like

um what is it like look at what it's

called like bio psych

uh i don't remember i remember there was

just this 10 minute video of this

techno dude probably from berlin he was

like nah i'm not even going to try to

impersonate him because that would be

bad luck right now but talking about

he's just talking about like um

the way that he was processing the drums

and what like how the brain interprets

it and then and then obviously

like just like uh i don't know if the

science has changed on this but like

at one time there was a there's this uh

idea that like the memory centers in the

brain are close to where the

a lot of the auditory processing centers

are too the same

it's like a smell too you know the same

way that like you know you smell

like i don't know um i don't know what's

your favorite food um

kurt well you know what i think what

you're saying is like when you smell

something

and it just yeah it's a memory like uh

for me yeah

it would be um it would probably be the

way that my

grandma used to cook her turkey for

thanksgiving like when i smell that i'm

always like

oh my god it like takes me back to that

moment or like a lot of the stuff she

used

to cook like a lot of old like german

dishes and stuff but

like when i smell that it's like i don't

it doesn't eat the food doesn't even

need to be in front of me but i'll smell

it and go like

i'll remember being like 10 years old

and eating that or whatever so it's it's

a really cool phenomenon too yeah no

that's the best yeah so you're saying

it's similar to like uh

for um sound as well because it's close

i think so

yeah i think so i mean yeah that's my

understanding at least right now

unless it's changed but yeah yeah no

that that's really cool i didn't know

that but

man i mean that would explain it i guess

i don't know i mean i'm no biologist

so what the heck do i know yeah me

neither me neither i'm

yeah like confused and lost most of the

time but i know a little bit

well you're you're definitely on a

higher level of

understanding that kind of thing than i

am for sure man

i i yeah i i definitely

can't do what you do bro so i i give it

up to you by that i'm just checking this

timer thing okay we're good

so we got nine minutes yeah no problem

um uh

so going back to um your grandmother uh

well actually i wanted to talk about the

the

um your alias with you which we were

talking before

we started recording um and i thought it

was a really interesting

um uh i guess insight on into it because

i always when i first read it i was like

oh it's like woohoo like a mario wuhu or

something

and then yeah you were telling me about

how your grandmother has like a high

influence in your music and i was like

oh it must be

with you as in like with your grandma

you're playing music with your grandma

and you said that it's not

quite that but it you know it's a you ha

you almost have a different

interpretation of it so

yeah but it like you know yeah like we

were talking about this earlier and like

i mean it

it's not literally that but it also kind

of is in the sense that like

um i i mean first off i'm really bad at

coming up with names but

i just chose that because i it just

i thought about like how personal uh

music is to me and how like it's

and just for all of us you know like

we're we're we're walking like you know

libraries of like sounds and collections

of sounds and

songs that we grew up listening to that

we heard in our in our homes with our

families um with our what our friends

used to bump whenever we

did whatever you know sports or

activities that we enjoyed growing up so

it's like we're just like this walking

like compilation album pretty much

and so you know everybody probably i'd

wager like has something that they

you know was usually stuck in their head

or you know songs that they remember and

so it's like for me

um that name that i chose is just like

these are the songs

these are the sounds that i hear in my

head this is like a soundtrack that

um it's like constantly evolving in my

brain but like

i guess for the last you know year and a

half these these this is like all this

stuff that was like

you know marinating in my head and like

boom splat on the you know

on the mp3 uh you know listen to that

you know

but basically yeah but also like on a

more serious note it's just like that

um like that intimacy that like

um that intimate relationship that i

have with music and like um

and speaking to like how important it is

to me and how um

i know i know that for other people it

can it can mean that too and maybe even

more

and so yeah just really trying to get at

that

that intimacy and like that personal

relationship that we all have with sound

but also like i think we were talking

about earlier how like it

it's it's only you know it's just like a

shorthand you know it's like w

and so it's like i mean you know when i

talk about it usually

i'll say it's like with you but really

it could be whatever it needs to be for

a person

in that given moment you know and just

like how music has

different things that it can do for

people in a given moment too it can be

entertainment right

you don't have to think about the

lyrical content if it feels good you

know it feels good

or if you want to right you can curl up

with a book and like read you know like

malcolm gladwell i don't know why he

came in my brain right now you know him

and listen to you know your harry potter

soundtrack you know it can be

what it needs to be for the moment and

that's why i also love about it so much

and and and that's why what it what it

sounds like and what it feels like can

can be so many things too so yeah

art is like a deeply personal thing but

you're you're sharing it with other

people

so it's like you're giving them kind of

a glimpse into like the

the craziness that's going on in your

mind almost right

yeah yeah it it and

definitely people will interpret it

differently and it

some it it grows from like what this

this small

p thing that you made into

having so much more meaning just to

everybody and that's i think a really

interesting part of art yeah

i mean i'm trying to remember this

example but i can't remember which

artist it was but

basically there was someone who you know

all these people had been

analyzing this guy's artwork and they're

like oh it means all this and this and

this and then like someone

uh i think interviewed him and he's like

oh yeah i just like the color and

uh i really wanted to paint like a

picture you know like

my mom or something and so it was like

that and

but like to him it was just

that but it

somehow his feelings towards his mother

got put onto the

you know the painting or whatever and

everybody yeah um

got something from that got a glimpse

into his life basically in the way that

he did that which i think is really cool

because

yeah obviously he's going oh yeah it was

just this and that but

it's it is more than that because he

does have this feeling towards his

mother and he put that onto the artwork

right and then people

were able to spot that in the art and

take something

from that that was maybe deeper than he

intended but

the intent was almost uh subconscious i

guess is maybe

yeah the best way which is cool yeah

yeah maybe and maybe all those people

helped him realize that you know even if

he wasn't aware in that moment

oh yeah yeah that's a good point yeah i

mean yeah

you you are the artist but also

some of the most artistic qualities of

it isn't so apparent and

other people have brought it to your

forefront

yeah yeah so true the the

i remember like i forgot what what uh

artist this was or something but i

remember

um more like abstract modern art you

know like uh i guess

you know the like when people kind of

generalize like modern art is like you

know like a circle and like a square and

then like a spider

and then there was like this um like

museum curator or something like that in

the video she was like

oh you know like the two circles

in the painting you know they sort of

remind me of the stratification of the

caste system and the society

and the different individual i mean and

then he was like

yeah yeah i like circles man

yeah he's like circles are good

that's tight yeah but i love that but i

love

it i i think that's great you know like

if i can i

i mean it's definitely like a meme to uh

to do i guess for people to do that but

i do think that there's some value to

like over analyzing a piece of art that

was just so simple you know

because you're you're definitely putting

some like a personal like um

a personal connection into that thing

that you know obviously

you're you know you have some yeah you

have some kind of connection to it and

you're adding more to it

you know whether that was the intent of

them or not i think that there's there's

some inherent value in that and um yeah

i mean because you're still i mean i

mean like

i obviously there's free will and art in

the decisions and the choices that we

make

when we're making stuff but it's also

like that's still on some

level informed by like our life you know

mm-hmm

i think about maybe i might not be

thinking why i like that

you know that i chose or something yeah

but the reason you know i'm like oh yeah

or that you know you know it sounds like

the color pink to me for some reason

so i like i think so let me throw that

down let me slap that on there

[Laughter]

um so uh

moving on to this next topic um

you're you've been a dancer for a long

time a b-boy

um what what do you find

is the like relationship between like

music

and dance music production and dance

um and um i think

so many things i don't know i think like

obviously as

i mean in the most literal sense like as

dancers we have a little bit more

perspective on like the stuff that makes

us want to you know go

off you know but now you're creating the

the thing that makes you go off i like

you have control of that too

so yeah you have a gauge you know you

have a natural gauge of what your butt

is doing you know so it's like the more

heat you're

just like you know you're like

there it is dude you know first torch

and then you know that's your like you

know little meter you know like oh yo

limit break you know let it break that's

what's up

like i can drop this right you know but

yeah

but yeah but yeah but it no but in all

seriousness yeah like definitely you

i think like that's a gift because you

have more insight on like

i don't know what you like to hear and

what you think other people might enjoy

like dancing to and stuff

in any genre but um

what else i don't know i think like just

just yeah i don't know just playing with

different rhythms obviously you've heard

a lot of different dance music so that's

gonna

have an impact on like things that you

want to explore things that maybe

um you think would be fun to incorporate

maybe that you've never heard before

you know you might like style like

popping music but then you're like oh

what would that sound like with like

bossa nova or something oh

interesting yeah you know like that you

know again like you

can create like new creating new grooves

or like new um

new stuff like that and then and then

it's kind of like a feedback loop right

like

you can create something like that and

then maybe that can help a dance evolve

or like a person's style evolve too so

it's kind of like you're giving

more people to play more thing more like

a sonic palette to play with

they can evolve too and i'm sure they

all kind of like feed into each other

but yeah do you ever like make a track

and then you're like oh this is a banger

and then you just play it and start

dancing to it

and then uh and then um

like and then start like creating some

new move or something

yeah oh yeah for sure yeah i've just

been like

go roll on the floor and then like i'm

like yo yeah yeah

that's happened before and i think

that's like that's part of it too you

know your question it's like i think

it's

it's like um at least for me my thoughts

on dancing or like you know it should be

i mean you should try to try to at least

understand and appreciate whatever that

foundation is and then like

so honor that and then try to you know

you know uh

do that incorporate that into your your

dance and stuff but it should also be

like

you know um unapologetically like you

yourself and it always fun at the end of

the day you know so it's like if it's

not

if you're if you're making you know a

dance music or whatever and it's not

feeling fun and it's not feeling real to

you then it's like for me i don't

see as much of a point to it but for me

you know like i think it should just be

fun spontaneous um

you know ideally not sounding like you

know like mixed well and like not

sounding bad but

yeah but aside from that as long as it's

fun it's

it's just you doing your thing and um

that's kind of where you're at with

um trying to make dance music then

that's okay you know

it's more it's more for the people than

for yourself anyway yeah yeah and some

yeah you mentioned um foundation and um

what i guess like what is uh what is

your

how do i say this like what is like what

are your

thoughts on foundation and i guess how

do you reconcile that with um

um i guess like being

what you were saying earlier is

unapologetically yourself yeah

i think like i don't know maybe i mean i

guess we could talk about it within like

breaking right like yeah and breaking

yeah

yeah like i mean

there's so much merits to learning a

chair for use right or just like how

that

the concept of what a freeze even is

because if i don't know

if i don't if i'm not aware of that um

then i mean i mean there's nothing wrong

like just freely like you know

like just like and stuff but

um i don't know i think there's just so

much so much value in like understanding

like what are the cornerstones of like

of this dance you know like uh what are

the things that make breaking breaking

like

footwork you know like you know

you know like and having that

understanding and at least

you know again within like the realm of

like what your body can actually do like

trying to learn that um and then

from there i'm sure like through the

process of learning that you're always

finding yourself and you're always

you're always um you know you you know

you try to learn like a step or a

pattern and you accidentally

slip this way and then you know that

turns into something that is you that is

unapologetically you because it's part

of your like journey you know trying to

learn

foundation or whatever

and then like yeah and it just helps you

to bet like if you have a

if you have that understanding of the

foundation then it helps you to

be your self unapologetically more

because

then you have that platform to stand

like firmly on and it's the same thing

uh it's the same thing with music it's

the same thing with like um

like what i was telling you about the

the medicine stuff like when you have to

present a patient you know it's

you have your foundation and like you're

you're gonna throw you around now

because

and you can you there's more wiggle room

for you to be yourself because you

honored

what that foundation is and you made

sure to know that well

and so now it's like you know now you

have like

a clear way to tell your story you know

like you can um

you can you know like you can you can

cook this omelette for somebody and give

it to them

and you can put bell peppers in it but

the the thing that they'll notice is

that the

bell peppers because it's like it

clearly tastes like an omelette right

versus like i don't know

you didn't know how to make an omelette

and then people would just be like

yeah and then they wouldn't notice your

bell pepper

yeah so the same type of thing i think

yeah no

uh i've always thought about um like

foundation kind of like as

it's i almost think that every person

has their own

foundation in a way i mean there's

there's definitely

like i kind of separate the word

foundation and

like textbook moves you know because

there's obviously yeah yeah

there's obviously textbook moves in in

breaking which you know

we can talk about all that you know six

step windmill

flare whatever head spin like those are

obviously textbook moves but

i've always been like

foundation is kind of something a little

bit more because it is deeply personal

because i definitely

think that everybody to be a good

b-boy or b-girl has to really understand

their body

and what the capabilities of it are

um and then you take those textbook

moves and

you and and use it and

have your body like perform those and

that becomes

your your actual foundation in that

sense

and so long story short i

i've always thought of foundation as

more of like

a control of your body kind of thing

rather than a actual

move kind of thing and and i think that

that's how i really reconcile

being unapologetically yourself with

the foundation um yeah i don't know it's

a big

interesting concept that i've always

liked thought about so no

i love that no i think i definitely

think of it in the same vein i think

also like foundation as being

just knowledge acknowledge the history

of the dance

knowledge of the culture and then like

and then yeah and then

knowledge in recognizing exactly what

you're saying you know like that i mean

like i think that's part of what makes

breaking so special you know that like

it has a foundation and like yeah we're

talking we're really talking about like

all the different

ways that that foundation manifests but

like

originality um

very much stems from that like that

foundation of yourself and understanding

how to

move the things that you can and that

you can't do

and um and honoring that and just

um yeah using that to create your own

yeah your own sort of foundation so

yeah i mean cool yeah i love that

i mean i really this was a long time ago

when i really started thinking about

this because

you know when i was like a young b-boy

everyone was like you gotta have

foundation you gotta have foundation

but then also it was like sure you also

got to be original you can't

bite and i was like dude they those two

things almost seem

different like right but

and so it never made sense in my mind uh

you know as a young b-boy

because it almost seems like they're

they're they're

you know counterintuitive they're

counter to each other right

um yeah and so i kept trying to

reconcile that right

and i i think i finally realized that

originality really

is foundation to breaking

and yeah relationship between

your relationship between originality

and those textbook moves

is your foundation and i think that's

probably the best way i've like really

understood that now and so i love that i

love that

yeah i think that's something that

especially breaking

just makes that possible it makes that a

possibility like in that in that way you

know

it seems like it i don't know from my

understanding but yeah i love that

yeah yeah make sense um

so one of the

interesting things i mean obviously

anyone who's seen you break

um has seen like you have this really

unique style

and um i mean i i think it's

it's definitely because of the way you

you approach dance but i also

um i know that you've you have like some

hip

kind of like thing and i'm i'm curious

like how that

how you think that that has like really

influenced your style

yeah so i didn't know i wasn't aware of

it but i

had like um like hip hip dysplasia or

like hip misalignment

um i don't know at what point it

happened but

i remember like experiencing it as early

as like 17 years old

like playing soccer and like feeling my

hip click but

caught up with you know the next thing

like whether that was i gotta pass these

classes or i gotta do this or do that

and so

um yeah by that so then like seven years

past

it um was it i don't know some time

passed i tore my acl in a battle

i used to love doing flips yeah my acl

exploded i was doing like uh

like an aerial or something it was like

this take down to my shoulder

and um and yeah it just popped just

exploded and it was over

then um but long story short around that

time i was like

well i'm already here you know at caster

pyramidante

so i should probably you know like

advocate for myself and like 10

you know appointments later of like and

being sent to every possible

place you know finally they're like all

right we'll give you an mri

um and so yeah that was the beginning of

like i think four

different surgeries or three or four one

for the acl and then three for the

hips on the left and the right side so

um

yeah like yeah so i had like a lot of

cartilage damage because i was like a

hardcore skater for like

man like 13 or 14 years just jumping off

shit

yeah yeah did a lot of damage in there

yeah

like um yeah and so like i'm like pretty

osteoarthritic probably like i'll

probably

i mean knock on wood but it's probably

gonna happen i'll probably need like hip

replacements and stuff oh man

um so at the time it was just it was

tough because you know and it still is

you know

dancing is still my main form of

exercise but um

that was really devastating at that time

because it's just like a lot of you know

you know some one can one conception of

human suffering is like loss of self

like loss of sense of self and for me

that sense of self is derived from a lot

of things that i enjoy doing right

that are act physically active yeah yeah

so that was really hard

um and so yeah and so

you know but again you know we're really

fortunate you know we we are

you know we break you know and so um

and you know and and we enjoy other

dances too right so i was like well i

could just say

um you know i guess i'm just gonna quit

and and that's it but it's like i don't

know you know i'm

i'm i imagine like from your experience

too there's probably been some times

where

you know you have this love that's just

like overflow constantly overflowing and

it's not and that's not going away

but then other aspect of your life is

trying to

you know come in the way of you engaging

with that love in the way that you want

to

and so i guess i just came to a

crossroads where i was like well i could

you know i could um i guess i could just

stop

but i don't know i i don't know i'm

really stubborn and like i just wanted

to figure it out because i remember um

i remember my one of my surgeons like he

was like oh so

this break dancing like whoa where do

you do

it can you i showed him a video

like kid david doing like a six step or

something he was like

oh like yeah he was like you shouldn't

do that

anymore like oh but

oh that's heartbreaking dude yeah he

told me to stop

and i was like fuck man

i don't want to stop um and so but you

know but like you know

after that depressing appointment you

know i was thinking about you know

junior you know ill abilities you know

like

hmm all these i mean just all these cats

that just they

they find a way to move you know they're

all just moving you know it's like

they're they're they all have their

foundation and it's like so

the door i mean i'm sure that there must

be some poppers or

you know other dancers and you know uh

that have found a way to

with their respective styles but i just

saw a lot

of examples in the dance that um that

gave me a lot of hope you know

and um and so and then yeah so i was

like

i'm gonna try i'm gonna admit this out

and

and also just like another thing about

breaking i think the

dancing in general or in a lot of scenes

is like that sense of community too that

you can have with people like i

i really didn't wanna i love that so

much and i didn't want to

lose that either um and i just

appreciate it so much so i

you know i would miss not going to

practice two times a week or even three

times a week and just

hearing the music engaging with people

and and obviously you know getting

exercise and all that stuff there's so

many

positive things about it um so yeah so

basically after that you know i just

i was just like i went online i remember

like i don't know if

you know that people are like peter or

something things from like denmark

do i know this i don't know i know a lot

of useless information but he was doing

like a

planche workout you know like you know

doing all that stuff

i was just looking up all that stuff

because i was just like well you know

these people that have found their own

foundation part of it is like they're

building

on what it is that they are able to do

instead of being focused on what they

can't do

so i was like well my ass worked still

last time i checked

my belly sometime i checked my back is

all right last time i checked you know

shoulders you know yeah yeah

that that's okay at least for now so

it's like why don't i focus on

strengthening

my muscles in those areas why don't i

focus on figuring out a way to move in

all these seemingly awkward positions

but there's a there's always a

there's always a relationship to

establish there's always a connection to

be made it's just that

that path hasn't been like maybe um

explored as much for a lot of different

reasons

one being yeah maybe people think it

just looks dumb or maybe it's just more

difficult

right but but you know that in itself

makes it more worthwhile too because if

you can for me in my mind it's like if i

could find a way to do that then

that would just be wonderful because i'd

be able to dance again and also

maybe make some cool stuff you know

create some new stuff again out of

creating something out of nothing

and it's like the best things that one

of the best things about breaking or

dance in general it's like we're always

in art in general it's like we're

creating we're creating a space we're

creating an environment a mood a feeling

and energy you know that you get when

you go to the gym and everyone's like

you know it's like a party vibe or

whatever it is you know

people are having a good time people

feeling love hate motion

camaraderie competitiveness yeah you

know what i mean

learning you know values about

self-confidence formative experiences

for high school students

and people in their 30s whatever they're

all you know what i'm saying

and it's all from nothing like if you

think about it it's just a bunch of

people

standing in a room a hot and sweaty room

and then there's like two speakers and

some guys like

you know i mean or girl or you know

however you you know identify whatever

your respective gender identity is but

you know what i'm saying like oh it is

and we get so much from it and so i was

like shit man i gotta

i gotta figure this out because i can't

i can't give this up you know

yeah yeah dude that's that's tight and

like so you obviously like work through

those those

um struggles and

i mean that's that's the definition

right there of unapologetically yourself

almost you know what i mean

right yeah yeah it's uh and

so anyways um like so

i think it's it's really cool

uh to share that story because i know

that there's a lot of like new dancers

out there that you know maybe they have

some

something you know that they're

struggling through you know whether it

be

like an actual injury or something

or maybe something different that you

know that we don't understand

but um and that's deterring them from

dancing but i think it's

really cool to hear stories like yours

where it's like

it's almost like it made you better it

kind of gave you a super power in a way

because

you had this you had this obstacle that

you had to get over and it made you

like once you got on the the other side

of the obstacle it was like

a huge door opened up for you and and

you obviously like thrived in that

and yeah i know and junior is a good

example of that too

cujo too it's like all these all these

guys you hear about that

you know had obvious obstacles

in front of them but they were able to

get over it and it

you know made them i mean junior in my

mind is one of the greatest

and yeah yeah like i i

it'd be hard to imagine him being

what he is without like you know the

yeah i think it's like a leg thing that

he has or something so

yeah it's it's a it's really it's really

interesting how that happens it's like

like it's it's a i don't know what you'd

say

disability i guess becomes a superpower

right yeah i mean the what is it i heard

something like you know it's

it's it's so much easier to be yourself

than to try to

you know be someone else or

you know conform to a certain style or a

certain sound like

and i think like it's an exercise in

that like i mean i could have tried to

somehow you know just

do exactly what i was doing before but

obviously it wouldn't have been

sustainable

and it would have hurt a lot too and so

it's like

if you can you know double down on

yourself and like and just remember that

you know that um

you know when you're when you're when

you're on the floor when you're battling

someone you're really like battling

yourself

first and foremost challenging yourself

to yeah just to find your way to move

and story then it's like and you've

already won you know it doesn't matter

what the outcome is like

yeah maybe i i don't have quote unquote

what the judges are looking for

but like i guess this just depends on

why someone dances but in my case it's

like it doesn't even matter

i mean what matters is the effort that

that we write the hours and the

everything that goes into

practicing or everything that like leads

up to that moment you know that one

minute

you know all that time and all that

energy and devotion

for one minute of in my case maybe a

crash

or maybe not a crash right but it's all

it's just so it's so worthwhile you know

so

yeah yeah and i hope yeah so i'll go

ahead

i was gonna say yeah and then all that

kind of pressure on yourself and your

it's a very big mix of emotions when

you're like dan you know dancing

um yeah because it's like a it's a

culmination of everything you've

practiced every experience you've gone

through

and uh you're throwing it all out on the

dance floor in front of everybody to

judge you i guess is yeah

um it's hard not to feel that too in the

moment i get it like we're human right

like i s

i would still get nervous and all that

stuff but um

yeah i would just say man like to anyone

out there if you just rolled your ankle

or you broke your arm or whatever it is

just you know

i mean there are just if if you can you

know after you obviously like

feel the grief you're gonna feel or

whatever it is and you and you're able

to like let that

like flow through you after that then

you know just

think about what it is that you can you

know what what are other parts of your

body or other things that you can focus

on

can you or even like in your mind right

what are things that you can learn about

doesn't even have to be within dancing

right it's like these are opportunities

to

you know work on other things like um

this is like

kind of like loosely related but you

know obviously with um the current

circumstances with like coca-19 i had a

friend who

um he was spending more time indoors so

he got into beat making he started

producing because

um inside more you know so

in general it's just like all this stuff

is a metaphor for the unpredictability

of

like what tomorrow brings and then you

know how and

where you know where i think we can win

is if we

you know we say we ask ourselves well

how can we adapt to this how can

we um i think this is an opera look at

this as an opportunity

um to yeah just explore something new to

further ourselves in some other way

because yeah yeah yeah yeah

and so furthering yourself um

that's a probably a good segue into

you as a med a med school student

um like because obviously that you got

like

a ton of um you know a lot of work to do

tons of

uh pressure like it's

it seems like such a crazy thing to be

juggling

while uh doing everything that you

already do

and uh yeah can you maybe like give give

us a little bit um

about that yeah i mean shit is hard i

think like

i don't know i think i feel like

fortunate that like a lot of the things

that i've

been able to uh pursue or keep doing are

things that you can do

like they're flexible schedule wise like

i'm not in a band

i don't need up with three other people

to you know and then

everything that comes with that or

whatever if you're going to record or

something like that and i don't need to

i don't need to go to like you know some

club if i want to practice you know i

just roll i just walk a couple feet and

then i just roll around you know

so i think like i've

i've had to i'm lucky in that way and

like i've been able to um

you know sustain myself because of that

because of the fact that you know like

at that random like 2 a.m

part of the night where i was at the

library and i just was you know i just

was done studying or whatever i could

just

go do that you know it would be

different if i played golf or something

but luckily i don't no no discs to all

the golf golfers out there

oh shay throwing shit ajax loves

uh golf stuff oh shit sorry hx man i

don't even know you man

hey man don't put that on the highlight

reel man i might get i'm gonna get

called out online

he's chill online instagram live

ajax golf is whack no i'm just kidding

anyway yeah i mean yeah i mean it's like

uh but anyway

yeah i always i always find have found

myself wishing i had more time you know

to do all this stuff but

but then again you know i think about

like before i started school and like

you know when i was you know uh back out

on the west coast how

i would just have some days of like

crazy writer's block where

it would be like i totally have an

entire day to work on stuff and then i

just be like

yeah like just you know kind of break

through whatever

you know and then that versus just like

some days i'll have like 15 minutes or

30 minutes but you can

you know sometimes you make you make a

lot of progress so it's just like you

just don't really know

like what's gonna happen when you show

up the more what's most important is

just showing up

and being open to the possibility and

like i think i've gotten better about

like

all these different strategies for a

creative block um and so

uh that's been really helpful and just

remembering like days like that where

it's like

i was at my oakland apartment and it's

like i had a whole day but i couldn't do

anything right so it's like greener type

stuff you know

so that kind of helps me feel a little

bit better about my life right now

i definitely i definitely feel you on

the

um on the writer's block thing it's like

there's moments where you're like you

really want to do something

and you just like i i don't know how to

do this right now it's like it's almost

like your brain just said nope

this isn't going to happen right now and

yeah

dude it's it's it's a really tough thing

and i mean i i imagine a lot of people

struggle with this

and um so i've come up with a few ways

to get

through it but i'm really curious about

like the the

um like your strategies i mean you

obviously kind of talked a little bit

about it but maybe you could expand on

it

personally what i like to do in terms of

breaking

is i just say you know what i'm just

gonna play

whatever music i like right now whatever

my mood is

and i'm just gonna go and i'm gonna

gonna just dance for 30 minutes

and whatever happens after that i'm cool

with

you know and this is what i would do for

writer's block and so i would go

to the gym or wherever i was gonna

practice

and i just play whatever music i like

and it just puts me in this mood

and then i just roll with it and i find

that that gets me immediately out of the

writer's block because i just kind of

went i went with the mood i had

um because obviously there's some music

for every mood you have

so you just went with that mood and then

just

laid on the ground rolled around or

whatever top rocked or whatever

and then it grew into something now

you're desiring to dance and that's how

i've always

gotten out of that writer's block it's

um it's cool yeah i don't know i don't

know if that if that's

maybe your approach or what what your

approach is

yeah no yeah i think so that's only a

big one like

when you talk about like that that

desire to dance like it makes you think

about yeah like

the things that more times than not the

things that help me get out of it is

when i feel compelled by something

whether that's like a sound or yeah or a

song if it's practicing it's like

very similar it's like i'm not gonna i'm

not gonna think about how i'm getting to

the floor or

what i'm doing um and yeah often it's

the music that um i just stand in the

mood to listen to i think the more times

that we can do that there i i

just feel like there's a much greater

chance that we'll be able to have a

breakthrough moment

yeah yeah i know just and at the very

least it's like you're just

having fun for 30 minutes just like yeah

you know i mean that that's the thing is

with the 30 minutes i say you know what

i have 30 minutes to definitely spare to

do this

and if i can't get it done in 30 minutes

you know oh well i'm not gonna like i'm

not gonna beat myself up over it but i

need to give myself at least

you know 30 minutes i definitely need to

just dedicate to this

to try to to get something happening

yeah and you know and

and i find that most of the writer's

block comes from

you trying to force something on

yourself and so yeah

and and so yeah my strategy was like

don't force it other than that you're

you're just forcing yourself to do

to be in this space for 30 minutes you

know and whatever happens after that

is is cool um but go with your mood go

with

what's going on in your life you know so

there's times when you know like

you're just feeling sad for yourself or

whatever the heck i'll be like man i

just want to listen to cold play and cry

in a pillow

you know what i mean no i'm just playing

but you know so it'll be like i'm just

playing around with coldplay coldplay is

cool dude i love coldplay dude coldplay

is

definitely one of my favorite groups um

but anyway so like there would be times

dude actually i think i've sent you this

we did a

um we me and the rest of my crew second

nature we did a show

to we we tried to do music that

typically you wouldn't dance to

it was kind of like yeah i remember that

yeah it was like a mo

one of our guys was good at like modern

dance and ballet and stuff and so we got

a lot of inspiration from what he was

doing

and we were like let's try to make a

like a modern dance show

out of breaking and so we just took all

these songs so one of the songs was

actually a coldplay song

i like i um i kind of made the whole

piece

for for that section of the show and it

was to this coldplay song

um i forget the name of it um that's it

but yeah

no but i mean that sprouted out of just

me going like oh feeling sorry for

myself like let's listen to coldplay

and then take 30 minutes to just dance

and then like i found that

i just started dancing and creating

stuff and it was like

you know kind of in a different world

than like what you would be doing at

like a jam or something but it's still

like

novel ideas and and something that's

going to help you grow as a dancer so i

you know yeah yeah i love that yeah i

mean

yeah in the literal sense like just

different sounds and

rhythms and stuff like that and speed

just like opens you up to

moving differently you're always going

to move differently and so yeah that's a

huge

for dancing yeah that's such a huge way

to um

get out of that for sure i was just

going to say that um

oh definitely send me that again i want

to watch that again but i'll send it to

you

yeah but also um yeah when you're

talking about that desire

that desire to dance i think it that

makes me think about yeah just a desire

to

to do anything creative in general like

and and i think

for me again that goes back to um

like the question of why right so like

what i mean is like you know some days

i'll come back

extremely exhausted and more times than

not

sometimes the act of practicing or or

trying to work on music or something

feel felt like um

it's almost like ink bleeding bleeding

onto the page from the day

and that ink being like this

goal-oriented like task oriented kind of

thing like

to finish this news and this you know i

mean and

i lose time but it's like that's not why

that's not why i'm doing it but i

i forget a lot you know most days i

forget

and when i'm able to be in a place of

like desire right like when you're

listening to

you haven't even started working on

stuff but you're listening to something

that

yeah makes you yeah feel the desire

uh to make something because you love

you know for me it comes from like

that love of music being like feeling me

so fully that now just like pouring

like you know out everywhere and it's

pouring out in terms of the fact that

like i want to make my own version of

that you know i want to i want to make

i love it so much that i want to you

know tell my story and so like when i

feel that when i'm in a place where i

feel that desire whether it's like

uh you know like you have literally

nothing in your uh

your pro your production program and you

you find one really funny sound that

makes you laugh you know then i i feel

that desire like yo

this funny sound like into something or

that song that you really enjoy

or seeing a project that like you know

you're um your previous guest you know

uh

dj fiction is that yeah yeah yeah like

me you know whatever

any yeah that's that's the only way i'm

able to like get out of it if i can feel

i can come to that place of like desire

or like feeling compelled you know

that's the only way um otherwise yeah

it's just like

i just feel like i'm just checking it's

like a to-do list or something but then

it's like it doesn't have any meaning

for me anymore

not to say that there's not merits to

like because again on the topic of

finishing things like there's merits to

you know trying to start things that you

um or sorry trying to finish things that

you started and stuff like that and

i could talk about that forever but the

point is that i think like

what sets you up like the assist or

whatever that's this past to like how

you know for your slime dunk is like the

the that desire that you're talking

about and

however however you come to feel that

way yeah yeah

it's yeah it's it's creating the desire

out of like whatever

situation you're in at that point yeah

and you know exactly

i definitely think that art make it'll

create more desire to do what you're

doing

uh in you know for example like dancing

like once you start dancing you want to

dance more

but yeah when you're on the when you're

on the the fence of going like do i want

to actually

dance or not that's the hardest part i

think for me

because it's like oh i'm tired i'm

exhausted dude like today sucks like my

you know whatever yeah stupid whatever

was going on today

so you just gotta jump off the fence

really and

that that little 30 that 30 minute rule

is basically me jumping off the fence

like let's just go into the space

see what happens and then hey it just it

just happens after that you know what i

mean i don't think i've ever left

the you know a session um

at af you know after 30 minutes even

though i i've

i've completely dedicated myself to like

after 30 minutes if you want to leave

just

bounce you know and yeah there's no hard

feelings at that point

you know um yeah but i don't think i've

ever left after 30 minutes and there's

been times when i was like

fuck dancing but i still was like let's

go let's just do it

and so i don't know yeah yeah

that makes complete sense yeah i mean i

yeah i mean even last night i

experienced that

and but yeah i never regret it when i

finally get to that place it's like

man this is like the best gift i could

give myself you know

yeah 30 minutes like that's crazy like

because

um that night i wanted to just go to

sleep

and then you know when i do that i feel

even worse the next day i feel like i

have less energy

whatever um enthusiasm but

it's just nuts yeah how like once we get

over that little hump then

um that 30 minutes for me at least it's

like a reboot it's like a

reinvigoration it's it just helps with

everything

i don't know the psychology of it but

there's got to be something

in in like

being basically mentally drained from

whatever you're doing

in your case like you know being in med

school uh

like but entering a creative

world in your brain

it it does like rejuvenate you in a

weird way

oh yeah oh my gosh it's the best thing

man it's like

there's this um producer from los

angeles named teebs and i remember he

had this interview where he was like

uh he was saying that like yeah music is

the only place that makes sense to him

he's like you know it's the only place

that makes sense to me it's a place like

where i can go

yeah something like that it's the only

place i can go where everything makes

sense to me

and that way too it's like i mean the

the things that i made and stuff like

they are um

you know they're places that i hope can

take people somewhere

wherever that is but for me also they're

like literally places i constructed for

myself to escape to

and to exist in because man

sometimes just you know man this uh

the day is too heavy there's too much to

bear sometimes and so

to have a place that you created for

yourself your own like hyperbolic time

chamber or whatever

like yo it's the best in um

yeah it's i mean it's art is a deeply

human thing i think

um and we do a lot of non-deeply human

things

i think in our life i mean obviously

like you know yeah

working in office or whatever like it's

just not

it's not really something that we've

evolved to like be

uh doing all the time you know what i

mean being a part of that because it's

just like

only in the last i don't know what is it

100 years maybe even only like 50 or 60

years

has the human race really been putting

themselves in that

kind of space i mean like we were

basically what hunters and gatherers

like

what i don't know 300 400 years ago or

something

like there's not a lot of time to evolve

out of that world and so

but i think art has been with us since

like basically when humans became humans

or whatever yeah i mean so

uh i think that that's why it's such a

therapeutic

thing for everybody to like to like kind

of go back into the roots of

them as a human and express themselves

to to cope with like all the extra shit

that we've added on to

to our lives in the you know in the past

hundred years or whatever so

yeah man yeah you're speaking on

something so just

man so intrinsic to being human it's a

fundamental part of us and that's why

i trip out like you know sometimes like

you know at least for me in like some

academic spaces you know it's like

let's say you're working with 10

colleagues and they have never met each

other and you have like a morning

meeting and everyone's like

okay you know introduce yourself where

are you from

where'd you go to school and what are

your hobbies you know and then like

people will say what they're gonna say

but like

you know sometimes i'm like damn like

this person didn't mention anything

creative and i like

i and there's nothing wrong with that i

mean i think everything can be

there's some creativity some component

of creativity and a lot of things but

yeah i just it's just something that's

like so yeah like you said so human and

like

something that we should it should be

like mandatory like in

every in like every school curriculum or

every like job

i don't know like description or

something that you should have like time

allocated every day to do

to journal or to whatever you know to

make your make your like latte

art or whatever yeah yeah dude it's like

it should be it should be embedded in

society the same way that other things

are

you know i mean i think it inherently is

embedded into everything but

uh us as like adults and uh you know

just the like

business world and uh i don't know if

this is

maybe it's probably wrapped up in a

little bit in like capitalism too is

is yeah we try to suck it out a little

bit right

um i mean i guess if you're looking at

capitalism straight for what it is it's

it's it's

it's trying to you're you're trying to

get more money for the

the the effort that you're putting in

right that's kind of the uh yeah the

main goal of it right

um yeah and so it's deeply embedded to

be efficient and i think what happens

with that

is you try to make a process for

something

to to be more efficient but by doing

that you're

also kind of taking out a little bit of

the creativity that went into getting

a certain task done right some because

everybody's going to probably approach

the task a little bit different and

that's maybe how they're

they're they're in inserting their own

creativity into it but when you're

saying no

don't do that here's the exact process

you should do because this is the most

efficient thing that we've figured out

in the like

you know 50 years we've been running our

business so do that

and so in the efforts of making more

profit you're kind of sucking out a

little bit of the creativity

and and that's not to say that i think

capitalism

is necessarily like a bad thing i think

it also helps

you know kind of motivate a lot of uh

new new innovations too but i do think

that when we inherently are always like

focused on that kind of

like profits you do stray away from a

little bit of creativity because

essentially like creativity is

a little bit of play right and a little

bit of play

takes a little bit of extra time right

and so a little bit of extra time means

a little bit

less efficiency for the bottom line

right and so

yeah yeah i think like in in that

consideration of like what's

in the best interest of the gdp like

things can fall to the wayside right so

like

yeah he said what you said about the

considerations about creativity or doing

something

for the sake of um personal enrichment i

don't

i imagine that's not built so much into

that algorithm or whatever

that thing is that they figured out was

the most like effective way to make

money or capital

and also just stuff like other things

too that can follow the waste are like

human rights or like or these are these

considerations that are

are also fundamentally human but like

all too often like we kind of turn a

blind eye to them like

yeah but that's a whole other

conversation but yeah but creativity is

a huge part of that too that i think

is a lot of the time because really like

if you think about it i mean

i mean one could argue that like there's

not really a there's not really an end

point to that right you keep

finding ways to generate more and more

and more and then like

and then what you know like what's what

about the people that are

have been building that for so long like

how's their spirit you know like are

they able to be creative are they

able to um yeah have fundamental rights

are they able to

you know live live uh live a healthy

life

and also i guess still while still being

able to help like generate that capital

or whatever yeah

no i i i think probably

what the way to maybe fix that

and maybe this is getting too political

but

is to like really is to put like the

you know the human part about it over

the profit part of it it's okay yeah

i'm not against that at all but

definitely when it's when that's

stepping on

um you know you know creativity

human rights stuff like that it that's

it's not that's not a good position to

to to to be in

uh as like a you know as the for the

human race right

it's yeah i don't know i mean as i mean

as dancers as

as um you know creative people as

you know podcasters i mean like

i think it's like inherently political

and it's inherently

also yeah like it's a platform that

gives us this opportunity to

to you know address or speak on things

that we're also passionate about too so

it's like i think they're

also things that we can't really

separate you know it's like that

creativity is part feeds into that too

and and so like with

music stuff too it's like i didn't want

to obviously be preachy and stuff but i

also wanted to paint like a real picture

of like

because like my mental condition is also

it's just a mirror you know like

i know for many of us like our art is

just a mirror of

ourselves and like how the world is like

affecting us

um in that moment and um i'd be

too explicit with what i uh like

made and created but it also was like

openly

trying to start a conversation about you

know whether that's mental health or

like

the socio-political context in the

united states or

you know the isolation that you know i

feel and have felt as a result of you

know school

or obviously you know everyone needing

to be indoors

for you know people safety and stuff um

you know like i don't know i i guess i'm

just trying to say in a convoluted way

that like we have a responsibility as

artists to

to create spaces for people to like

think about these things and talk about

them

and mo you know maybe even motivate

energize and create enthusiasm around

um doing something in their own way um

yeah to make this world a little better

so yeah

no and i was going to say yeah

really the only the only way to make the

world better is to like

make a conversation about the things you

want the the changes you want

yeah and and all too often i think

things get like super political or

whatever and and like people

just you know go into like an emotional

state and want to like

i don't know get not want to have that

conversation and

uh you know uh yeah i think

that's partially why i created a podcast

because it was like

that i mean i'm just a dumbass

out here like and ah come on man

i feel no i mean honestly i i feel like

i you're not a dumbass i feel like

any kind of brilliance i have is a

culmination of all the brilliance

all the brilliant people that have had

conversations with me right

i think i'm just like a dumb ass that

like was able to like soak in a little

bit of brilliance from everybody and so

um you know before i was doing a podcast

i was still

like having conversations like this all

the freaking time with people like

you know after practices or whatever the

hell i'd be yeah

you know doing that and i'll be like man

i learned so much stuff from just this

person

you know and they might have just been

some regular ass person i remember i

think i talked to like this homeless

dude and he like put me on game about so

much stuff

and um yeah but anyways like so it's

like

being able to like pull pull stuff out

from like a conversation i think was

super helpful for me and i think

that it's it would be very helpful for

other people too and that's kind of why

i

decided to make a podcast because it's

just like

a conversation needs to be had to like

really grow

at least for me and so yeah i mean you

i mean dude we've been talking about

this for so long i feel like for so long

you have been

talking about you know oh man tray like

work on the youtube stuff again or like

you know i want to do this podcast and

everything but it's like

you you know like i i know you're i get

what you're saying i would also just say

that you know you had to think about

what is this podcast really about how

how are you

you know how are you facilitating these

conversations how are you even right

like

how are you even like uh prepping uh

someone that you want to talk about

for their interview or whatever on the

podcast right sending them the questions

or

you know in the design there's there's

so much right like again it's like a

sort of assist too right like

um to the to the interviewee it's like

you're helping you're sending all this

background stuff and orchestrating all

this stuff so that

there can be like a good conversation

that happens in the first place right

you have to

be like the architect of all that stuff

so like you have got to give yourself

some credit man because

you can't like a platform right there's

no platform if there's nothing to stand

on

we are creating that so um

i would just say that in like yeah

anyway

yeah i mean dude i'm i'm i'm trying

you know what i mean uh yes it's like uh

i i mean most of the time when i'm like

figuring out who to get on here and i'm

like figuring out topics and stuff

dude it's for reals just like i'm

remembering conversations i had

with that person before and like all the

strokes of brilliance that has come from

those conversations

to like dig deeper into them

on the podcast and that's kind of like

what

where all that comes from i mean

basically that's what i sent you

i mean me and you have talked about tons

of stuff like that before all these

questions that i've

already sent you so um yeah i mean

again like maybe there's some brilliance

in me maybe i don't know but

i definitely think there's a lot more

brilliance in the people that i

talk to and you know

there's a function i think that there's

a function of

my own intelligence that is highly

uh you know probably like 95 percent of

it is from all the like

smart people around me i think you know

um

you had to be open to you had to be open

to that information

yeah also that maybe that maybe that's

the moral of the story is open

openness yeah yeah maybe

yeah well dude um

this has been a dope podcast i'd like

really like talking to you

um but we're like kind of hitting an

hour ago it's not good

i really like your trait we didn't get

to talk about earthbound but

you want to talk about earthbound we can

go over if you want to

i mean i don't know if you feel like

there's time but i don't want to

push this podcast to the limits but i

just wanted to say that's a great shirt

for all the viewers out there that's

what it's a dope shirt

yeah no i want to go there

yeah i love this shirt too no it's uh

man

earthbound has such like uh uh for

people who don't know

earthbound is like a video game from the

super nintendo era

and it was like i guess what jrpg kind

of

game um but it was so different from

everything else that was put out at that

time

and it's

colorful you know i it has a really

interesting storyline

and it would you know obviously other

games have done that too but like

one of the coolest things that i that i

felt in that game was like it took me on

a journey

um that lasted beyond what

[Laughter]

it lasted beyond um

it lasted beyond what the like scope of

the game is right it was

because i don't know how to explain this

without like ruining the game but

like you go you're you're basically

going typical kind of like

rpg fashion going to like different

areas fighting bosses and like leveling

up and stuff

and uh you know so it kind of tricks you

in a way because you're like oh this is

just a regular game and then when you

get to the final boss

it's like a slap in the face because

it's like

the all everything that happened in the

game is just

uh it turns it it's like it's turned

upside down and there's like this

freaking demonic like thing that's

attacking you and it was like nothing

like anything else in the game and i

just

distinctively remember i was probably

like 12 or 13 playing the game

where i was like oh shit i'm in over my

head like what the fuck did i get myself

into and it was like a deeply um it was

like a moment in my life where i was

like oh my god dude i'm like really

going up against um like

like i i had a feeling where it was like

oh man like

the like i wasn't ready emotionally for

what the fuck just happened in the game

you know what i mean

and you probably know what i'm saying

it's like you're going

everything was like colorful and happy

and cute and stuff in the game and then

you're

facing this boss that's just like i'm

gonna eat your soul and fucking

you know what yeah and anyway so like

that that game just really changed me

because it felt like

it was a uh it was like an

experience for like it was a it was like

a metaphor for like growing up in a way

right right because you're you're you're

a kid you're going through your life

you're you're doing what you're told

you're going you're you're fighting the

bosses you know whatever you're going to

recess and

you know freaking uh you know

going on with your life and shit just

like any other game would

have you do right and then

you are faced with like some actual

fucking shit that is changing you

from a kid to a man right a kid to an

adult right and that's how that felt to

me when i was playing that game

right when you get to that and so like

it always had this deep impact

on my life and so and then anyways like

so later on

i read about what the the author of the

game

was trying to do and he said that he

based the whole ending

on basically like a traumatic experience

he had as a kid

and um going into like the wrong movie

theater or something and seeing some

wild shit or something in a movie and it

just like

it was like a distinct moment when he

realized

he's no longer a kid anymore he's like

becoming an adult

so i don't know anyway so like

[Music]

that convinced me that video games are

like true art

uh and it's a medium for art and anyways

that that's my whole spiel about that

game and that's why i've always loved it

yeah really though i mean the

storytelling in that game and in general

like that's why i gravitated towards

rpgs when i was growing up because the

stories were always good

you know first learning about romance

first learning about

oh it's complex also like complex like

like just or just like just this whole

gamut of topics right

like extraterrestrials and like time

travel

like all this stuff that just ignites

the imagination

and it's just like you know that's

that's that's fun for it

for a kid too it was fun as a kid too

just thinking outside of like

your environment and yeah but i love

that i love that

um that metaphor for

you know transitioning from like

childhood to adulthood and i love that

got that from that and then and then

also that it just turned out that

you know when you looked into it that

there was actually some some of that in

a way you know based on the

experience of the vader that's pretty

dope man i didn't know that

yeah no i mean drop some you just

dropped like

a ton of knowledge like no

yeah no i've always had a very personal

um

uh relationship to that game for sure

because it just like it for real it's

like

like it yeah

yeah no it for reals had like a a

an impact in my life um

i love it it's and you know which is

what

art does and so it it was a

definitely a defining change of

perspective i think in my life and so

wow

anyways i love that and i love that

i love that uh you had some time and

space to talk about that on this podcast

because i think i imagine most of the

time you're

probably more concerned with helping the

guests say what they want to say but

obviously we both love that game so

hopefully that was fun for you

and i hearing it i enjoyed hearing it a

lot because i'm

you know it was nerding out like what

but yeah

that was fun that's some super nerd shit

well anyway so

before we go too much longer um

this i this was a great conversation

dude i'm really glad that you could get

on and uh

hopefully once covet is over we can like

do something in person

because obviously i really want to do

these kinds of things in person

um video calls are not like my favorite

thing

um but anyways uh

while we close this out what are your um

how can people get in contact with you i

know you got your spotify or your uh

you're on spotify you're on

soundcloud yeah yeah all that stuff

um instagram art is in their eyes right

yeah you can send me a telegram you can

um

page me and i'm saying you can knock on

my door and actually don't do that

that's

don't come to his house

um no yeah i don't know i got some links

like i'll just give it to you and you

can like post it on the thing like

check if you want my num

[Music]

[Laughter]

yeah you can slide in the dms if you

want

you can slide in you know we can talk

about earthbound if you're interested

yeah talk about so

don'ts well check out the album

aquastate

hopefully i said that right it's got

some major hits

some dope music and um yo

thanks for listening you guys shit my

cameras are dead

so i got

you like 20 minutes ago yeah well

screen recording will suffice yep all

right peace you guys

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

you