Illjaz - Europe x America - Noise of the Broke Boys Episode 015

Illjaz of the Ruffn'x crew talks about the European breaking scene, coming to America, and various other important topics in breaking.

A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.

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[Music]

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the show

[Music]

in this episode I talk with a b-boy who

has significant experience in both the

European and American breaking scenes

this guy really puts me on game about

life as a dancer in Europe in the early

90s I had a great time learning about

his history and picking his brain about

various topics please enjoy the episode

with ill jazz or Elyas of the Roughnecks

hello everybody welcome to the disaster

show that I just fucked up Dana press

record so here we are hopefully I can

salvage something from what we recorded

with my boy ill jazz

he's from Switzerland we are talking

about break dancing and you know how I

don't know how to record podcast so ok

how long have you been dancing oh I so I

started dancing with my younger brother

he's one and a half year younger than me

and we started in 9899 okay and it was a

good time I'm happy we started still in

the nineties yeah and before that we

played soccer we did inline skating like

halfpipe and everything and then we tie

and then one day we we saw like the Run

DMC it's like that music you know and

that was like dope and shit you know but

when when to use scented they have a

halfpipe and we went with the inline

skates yeah and then we look inside

there was a zombie voice you know

underneath no it was a halfpipe and

there was a building right next to it oh

and there were windows and I looked in

the windows and then I want I needed to

go to the bathroom I go inside and I see

somebody doing 90 oh I didn't know what

90 is you know and that was a shit I

want to learn that you know and then

since then we threw out the inline

skates and we started breaking and so

how old were you I was 15 15 that's

probably about when I start

to us and 14 or 15 em and I had no

flexibility because of Socratic like

Xena almost like I was pretty flexible

when I started because I did Taekwondo

for a long time and so we would you know

you'd have to kick really high and stuff

so I was kind of flexible from that but

I used to skateboard actually um so I

knew about half pipes and stuff I had a

lot of friends that did inline skating

and so we would go to those lots of

skate parks and I wish I had been

braking at that time cuz I totally would

have done windmills on it because it was

just so smooth yeah I didn't break I

quit I kind of quit skating to break

yeah because it was waiting let's I just

felt like skating was so dangerous

no it's I saw so many people just fall

and break the wrists my cousin broke his

wrist actually but I had another friend

who broke his ankle and they were doing

like you know shitty tricks yeah you

know kickflip and they like mob and it's

like if you did a windmill and broke

your arm like you know what I mean it's

just the generic you know beginner trick

sort of like the sport and you just

break you know I I started with skating

first actually yeah and then I went to

the mini ramp and I went there the

skateboard stayed there

oh do back oh yeah I tried I tried

inline skating I picked it up pretty

easily actually but I just never was too

into it um I was just more into

skateboarding yeah but I had some

friends they would like you know jump up

and grind on stairs they showed me how

to do that so I learned kind of some to

do that stuff man like 10 years after I

haven't done anything on the inline

skates mm-hmm I stand on the halfpipe I

couldn't go down it's scary yeah I was

like man how did I do that yeah

you know what I mean yeah no shit we're

not yeah when I was in she wouldn't I

was skating I think I started when I was

probably like 11 and I went till

probably 15 or 16 maybe and yeah I used

to go on half pipes and stuff and now I

look at him like holy yeah and it would

go off like stairs and stuff and go onto

rails and I'm like what the heck how did

I even do this I mean I wasn't really

good at it or anything but I just I feel

like I was maybe less fearless yeah

yeah now yeah yeah back then we just did

it man yeah I remember when I started a

little bit braking and still a little

bit in Nice skating

hey they have like this ramp going down

and then this little island yeah I flew

you know I started breaking I had so

much energy and different I flew over

that thing and I landed like two meters

away from it you know and that was like

shit whatever I gotta do I just roll the

really coin drop and then you know what

braking has saved my life a couple times

good yeah there was times when I went

snowboarding and you just you're going

so fast down a hill and you just hit

like something and you just eat shit and

I'm like you know I probably should have

been wearing a helmet but I wasn't and

it's just like woop and then for some

reason it kicks in I'm like oh I know

how to like land and I'll do a coin drop

or something in like you know so my head

doesn't get hit and you know I kind of

rollers or whatever to roll out and then

I stand up and people are like I got

something from cats yeah cuz I mean in a

way braking is just like falling but

showing off at the same time sort of

smooth so it's like you got you you got

good at jumping on the ground yeah

but fun fact is when we started breaking

we thought it's a sport oh you did yeah

like so we yeah before we started

breaking with inline skates we we

listened we discovered to puck and we

knew that hip-hop and Cypress Hill yeah

you know to pass episode exhibit NWA a

little bit you know so all that made

their way to but I thought this is

hip-hop yeah yeah in the nineties men we

listened all the golden era yeah and we

thought that's hip-hop but we didn't

know about

we knew graffitis somehow mixed with

hip-hop you know DJs they have the

rappers have a DJ you know but we didn't

know breaking is part of hip-hop you

know but when we started we learn all

the four elements and yeah knowledge the

culture and everything you know yeah

yeah but first we we did it because we

like this sport yeah yeah yeah I mean

it's it's definitely cool and I first

saw I mean I I don't know when I first

saw I think I first saw it when I used

to watch pro wrestling and there was a

group - cool and the one guy his special

move was he would just throw you on the

ground and then he would just dance

around you and then do the worm she all

the way across the ring and then just

whoo and like elbow using the base I was

in probably in middle school I was

probably maybe 12 years old when I first

saw that so I thought breakdancing was

wrestling that's crazy but so yeah but

maybe because we stop breaking in only

music videos you know back then you know

and it was all kinds of music it wasn't

only like hip-hop music yes like house

music dance music you know techno you

were always saw a b-boy somewhere you

know yeah so we didn't connect it with

hip-hop yeah I think in the 90s that was

when house music started really like

colliding a lot with with hip-hop yeah

yeah yeah

but yes so I'm interested in like how

hip-hop looks in Europe compared to here

cuz just like I've seen hip-hop as I

grew up here and I imagine it's way

different in Europe because like here

hip-hop was always associated with like

gangs and like you know people mischief

causers he's done you know I mean I mean

I don't know there is two ways of

hip-hop like people that are passive and

there are people that are active you

know they like back in the 90s hip-hop

in Europe was like you're not hip-hop if

you're not in an element you know if you

beatbox you okay you when it's not like

really official apart or of hip-hop but

you're still hip-hop you know okay but

if you break or beatbox or MC or DJ or

graffiti you you part of hip-hop and

then there is other people they just

friends and they hang out with and they

dress a pup listen hip up and whatever

but they're not active you know okay

that's how you us okay I guess it's kind

of like that now yeah yeah I know but

more back in the day it was like you

gotta be super down like b-boy was your

life you know you you lived that life

yeah we used to go like to Germany you

know like 16 I told our parents that

we're gonna go to a friend we're gonna

practice and then stay over there but we

went like 500 that's the way you know we

train and we go to a different city to

Johnny go to hm next day practice and

then come back yeah you know it wasn't

good timing yeah like when we went first

time bad luck year 19 2000 or 2001 we

train it was like five six hours away we

train and then you go to the Battle of

year cipher everything and event

everything and then you go the event is

over after party is over and then you

have to wait for the Train the first

train that starts going back home you

see like a hundred of b-boys at the

train station just inside for practice

chilling some people sleeping in the

corner starting practicing and

exchanging you know people like peoples

from France Germany Holland Switzerland

Italy you know you connect you know

exchange and practice that's cool and it

wasn't backed and it wasn't like really

a cypher and or calling out somebody but

it was more of a circle

somebody practiced something you know

and you go there and exchange and hey do

this like this or ain't look try like

that look I do something similar you

know so was it like a pretty friendly

scene in Europe in terms of like because

because what I'm used to is like I've

come from Sacramento in you know we just

get all jump in a car and we'd go to the

other city to do a jam or something and

everybody calls us out because it's like

hey you're in our neighborhood and we

would just get battled so that's nice

man it's like it was almost I mean it

was definitely less friendly now it's a

lot more friendly I can come you know

like me moving to LA if I had done that

when I first started breaking I probably

would have got battled for like a solid

you know three or four months and people

were like okay I think this guy's cool

you know cuz dude the first time I think

I went to a practice in Sacramento like

I was in high school and like we just

show up and they're like who are these

there's me and my brother that we just

show up and they're like who are these

two kids and we like couldn't even do do

anything really like my brother could do

in vert and like I think I don't know

what I could do like a head slide and

freeze or something and that's like our

only moves I guess we seriously we're

breaking for maybe like six months and

it's like the whole like room is a

psycho fuck these comments we on the

title you know and then I think you know

after you battle a couple times then

they realize okay

trying to cause harm or like because the

thing was that everyone was scared that

you're gonna like bite their moves steal

their yeah so it was like you know

they're automatically sort of hostile to

you but imagine you guys would have

stopped dancing because of that you know

yeah what's up it wouldn't ya know I

mean yeah there was a lot of reasons to

stop I mean for sure but it but it's it

was all the way it makes you stronger

you know to not give up and you stay on

it you know motivate you maybe you know

I just yeah it was just I had to learn

what the scene was like you know what

what was acceptable in the scene and go

with that you know like well I think I

remember I told this in another podcast

but I remember we brought this this

shitty camera because me and my brother

used to we used to make a lot of home

videos we used to make like skits we

were really into MADtv do you remember

MADtv it's like Saturday Night Live's

okay so we used to make all these stupid

skits and stuff so we had our parents

got us this like really crappy video

camera so we can make all these stupid

skits just for fun and then we brought

it to go practice cuz we were just gonna

film ourselves and stuff and then people

are like what are you doing with this

case you get beat up for like bringing a

camera to practice and stuff because you

know because they automatically think

you're filming these guys to take their

moves on amou say yeah we learned real

quick don't bring the camera there

we brought the camera yeah very early in

our training you know to see what they

do wrong because we were the youngest

too and there were all the generation

you might know buzzer City attack oh

that's the older generation they battled

rock four screw in the 90s

yeah so control so Cujo and there was

the older generation and we look up to

them and but we didn't get like help you

know so oh we got this ourself you know

he was looking me and I was looking him

and then we see the older generation and

what what's the difference between him

and you you know

yeah that's how we learn you know then

bring the camera and see what we do

wrong yeah that's how we stop we were

the youngest and our first battle was

also about a six month in her making in

the first round we won against all the

guys yeah keep going you know you're

good we're good

that next round we battle younger guys

the nose and the smoker so yeah then

yeah and then it's like man we need to

practice was a good wake-up call and

then we from then on we started

practicing every day you know some days

eight hours yeah our parents didn't

believe that we we practice eight hours

they thought we're doing something

criminal you know yeah exactly

we would do kind of the same thing can

you practice eight hours yeah but it's

just like you get totally immersed into

that that world and you just wanna you

have a focus to get better I think

eventually my parents realize we're not

doing anything bad yeah like and they

saw us getting better at it so it's like

oh they're obviously like practicing

this so yeah like all right whatever and

we we also stole my parents camera you

know you didn't have their camera and

they used it only for a special when

family came to visit us you know so we

just took it and then practice and then

sometimes they would see the tape you

know we just buy a new tape put it in

and then record yeah take the tape out

so they see but we were like crazy

addicted to practice man yeah not even

just battling just practice you know to

learn the move to yeah you know we were

there first and we left there the last

you know people were coming and going

and we're still there yeah yeah yeah I

mean I was the same way just always

practicing always practicing definitely

that's like my favorite part not

breaking for sure is just like getting

getting down playing like your favorite

music and just practicing coming up with

some new movies training some new stuff

training old stuff you know it's that's

that I feel like that's where the real

creativity comes in when you're out

battling when

performing and stuff it's just kind of

showing off you do what you know yeah

you're just I think if you practiced

well and then it's the performance in

the battle is gonna go it's gonna go

well because you did you did the

homework but the the real work is really

when you're practicing and trying to

figure no you know how I prepares for

battles

I never prepared full set oh no like I

never practiced full sets in practice

yeah because then if I'm gonna just do

the same solar what I did in practice

it's gonna be boring it's not gonna have

that fire feeling whatever you know so I

always put like practice only half set

okay yeah and then practice I do only

have sets and then I maybe just add some

power moves just to so I have the

condition the cardio but in the battle I

would mix my small set together you know

like I put three sets in one yeah so

then you know so it's always new it's

always fresh and you can always

improvise it freestyle it and yeah you

know depends of the music moment and

everything you know I used to make full

sets and it just got really boring to me

to do that so what I started doing

instead is practicing those full sets

and then when I go to battle

I just don't think about them I just

totally try to just focus on you know

the battle focus on the music focus on

my opponent and just let it happen and I

you know I practice a lot of freestyling

too so it's like I know that the

material I have this you know the set of

moves I put together I know that it's

good and if I don't do it perfectly I

know how to freestyle out of it and so

on it gives me confidence to just go out

there and basically with a clear mind

and just let it happen and I think that

that's a way better way of breaking yes

before I would go out and go okay I need

a pre-plan everything and it distances

you from everything from the moment from

the music from the battle DJ

and it's just I don't think that's a

good way to do it yeah I but I was

always trying to figure out a good way

to mix you know because there's a lot of

creativity in the combinations that you

put together that you pre-plan I always

wanted to be able to still showcase that

but I don't want it to look so

disjointed yeah and so the yeah the way

that I figured out how to do that is to

just make some sets and be content with

not doing that and by practicing them so

many times and then you just kind of

forget it

it just kind of happens or like piece of

memory and yeah it's almost exactly it's

like I mean like with martial arts a lot

of times you'll train like a combination

like a kick punch combination you know

hit hit to the body hit to the head or

whatever and you train that so many

times going you actually are fighting

you might not do the full combination

you'll do like one two part of it you

might do it twice in a row you might

link this combination to that one just

because you see the opportunities and

you you have to improvise you improvise

to make it happen and so I I took a lot

from that

yeah very good yeah and so since I've

started doing that I feel like it's

helped me a lot but then for example I

wanted to say some bash beam for example

that meets in German for example when we

started performing like performances

shows right it's a much easier than for

us right so because then we prepare a

solo for the show to the music you know

so you can be much more confidence in a

performance yeah yeah yeah because we

are if you think about it in a battle

you are in so many uncomfortable yes

inaudible but somehow you practice to be

comfortable you know and in a

performance you're fully comfortable you

know yeah so you can shine much easier I

hope if you go like to a quarry your

world people struggle and are nervous

you know yeah I never understood in the

beginning why are you guys nervous man

we've been practicing this I don't know

how long yeah

you know I think it's just because there

you're in front of a bunch of people you

don't know and you're like you know

you're out in front of everybody and

just doing what you want to do and

there's a little bit of fear that they

might not like what you're doing but you

just gotta go man who cares

you really care yeah you have to do your

thing with you just got it you cannot

change it anymore you know what yeah in

it and really at the end of the day if

that whole crowd says you suck like do

you really care yeah yeah it probably

stings a little bit but then you go like

men I don't give a fuck about these yeah

that's the best thing when you do

something you love you know yes I'm

better because what other people think

you know what I mean yeah I I take the

same approach with like judges too you

know like when you're actually battling

and the judges vote against you or vote

for you really like really I look at it

as they're just they're they're a crowd

member and they're just saying you that

their opinion of you was either you want

or you lost but I I really think that if

you enjoy what you did then you

shouldn't really worry too much about

that I mean you could obviously like to

listen to what they have to say because

they might have some insight into

something you maybe didn't know about

your own dancing um and that's always

good to do but at the end of the day if

you enjoy what you do I don't think you

should let anything holding me hold you

back so like the way the way I always

put it was like if my mom was a judge

and she was like you suck I'd probably

be like okay maybe I gotta practice well

like if some random dude that I don't

even know it's like oh I thought you

lost and I honestly thought I won I'd be

like okay well whatever you don't

yeah it's mean was totally different in

the beginning you know I when I was

young I was getting mad when I left the

judges men you have no idea and but that

comes with maturity you know if you lose

and you take it easy

yeah but yeah yeah I would get mad too

eventually you get to the point where

it's like win or lose it doesn't really

matter that much like cuz again it's

just three people three or five people

you know judging on this thing and they

just said you want are you lost

I mean I'm one battle is that I thought

I lost and I was like I want I remember

I there's a couple of them where I was

like dude I walked to the judges I was

like dude you got this wrong and I gave

my prize money to the other guy cuz I

was like dude I didn't win and I'm not

just cuz these dudes say that I want

that's correct I'm not gonna keep the

money because I thought you you know

this dude one or this crew one so I just

gave it to them there I've done that

like a couple times that I can think of

probably two or three times it's crazy

man but it's just cuz you know I don't

break to like make to get money or

anything it's like I just want I just

want to do it and I like battling but

the competition part of it I don't

really care that much about it it's it's

fun to win but I don't like I don't like

winning when I don't think I'm that's

crazy man that you gave money you know I

never heard that before

I mean I know people and I used to be

one of those yes I needed to win money

to pay rent and yeah you know what I

mean so because I didn't do performances

ie back in the days I battles was more

important to me than performances you

know K so and I needed to win that

battle too yeah you know to pay some

stuff up and then years later I judged

competition and in the final I judge and

against one guy and he told man yeah you

know it came to me like what okay I

understand but man I need the money man

I need to pay bills and there was I said

man I was to say like you you can never

rely on winning palace to pay your

person I think

yeah I I I mean there was times when I

was I could be I could have been in that

situation but I was like what I need to

do is actually cook his job so I got a

job instead of like I mean there'd be

times where I I needed some quick money

or something and so we would go and do

some street shows and stuff so that was

good to kind of and that's always been

my back-up plan in a way if like you

know the world blew up or something and

I don't have any money

I'd go do a street show I know that I'd

survive for at least one day yeah cuz I

could do I could at least do some

windmills and someone might give me a

like but ya know I was always like okay

I need to just go get a job to actually

pay ya there's been times when I needed

to win again but I I really hated the

idea of like needing to win - yeah and

and well and also - I was always scared

of the idea that you know I might be

winning and don't deserve the win and so

I was it always made me feel like crap

to even think of that situation in this

moment I with the time I learned to

understand that you know it's in soccer

for example you take the ball and put it

in the net that's a goal that's a point

yeah but in art it's hard to to give a

point here or here you know it's an

opinion if those charges think you want

you know it's it's their opinion even

you did maybe just a baby freeze and the

guy did the baby freeze - 90 baby freeze

you know and they liked your form bit

better maybe you know yeah so it's it's

hard to judge art you know it's very

hard so that's my yeah that that

actually is a good segue to a question I

have because now breaking is becoming

kind of more of a mainstream sport

eventually getting into the Olympics you

see like big sponsored events and

stuff and my fear is that we are doing

this but don't have a solid way of

judging it because it is an art and you

know I think the way that we've always

judged it makes sense for the small

community that we have as b-boys but

like when it comes to the mainstream

stage where there's like lots of money

lots of sponsors involved if you think

about white yea H and you know comparing

it to you know soccer for instance or

like basketball or any kind of sport

that's on a huge main main stage that I

don't think the judging system we have

right now is is gonna cut it because

what's gonna happen is a sponsor is

gonna look at it and be like ok why did

this guy win over that guy and you go oh

because these three judges said so okay

well what exactly made them say that you

know he's got you know 50 years in the

game and he thought that his backspin

was better than this guy's windmill and

then the sponsors gonna be like no that

doesn't make any sense

I'm out look for me it's how I compared

how I compared breaking to mix martial

arts right you remember mixed martial

arts in the beginning yeah nineties it

was like a karate guy versus of wrestler

yeah jujitsu guy was kickboxer you know

there was like we had Shawn versus like

yeah and that is a Wild West that's

breaking I would say most of the time

that's that's it right because there is

all right now but it's been four years

that you have a guy that does more like

foundation style or a guy that does more

blow up style or a Power Move guy or mix

guy you know but a complete mixed

martial artist is somebody that can do

like kickboxing wrestling jujitsu take

one toe karate whatever you know and

that should be with be born into men

like if you want to be an Olympic

champion you cannot just

roll around and do Foundation and the

fries and that's it you cannot be

Olympic champion with only that you have

to have all the elements you know in

breaking and you have to put it on a

level you know so everybody understands

otherwise it's gonna be like you said

you know people will not understand it

you know yeah I think with mixed martial

arts it's a good example of this because

yeah back in the day it was just these

styles versus each other and eventually

it evolved people were seeing that

certain styles were just dominating

every everything and so then it evolved

to where now the fighter isn't just this

one style he takes a little piece of

this other style and it makes them

better but and so like eventually you

saw everybody now doing that same thing

all taking out different pieces of it so

now you see guys that I mean basically

and I'm not like a an authority on this

or anything but like in general like

usually a good fighter would have some

good striking some good grappling and

some good crown stuff and so and that

would make them somewhat effective

against anybody and that's what that's

the type that's a style that flew to you

know to the to the top of it mixed

martial arts in I mean Zee right let's

take Conor McGregor right he's a

stand-up guy

yeah southpaw very effective yeah but he

had to learn takedown defense grappling

you know he had to learn because you

guys would do that yeah you know he's

got to but now or maybe the last couple

years

there is people like young people they

come up with the full game they don't

start they don't come from karate or

from rest oh yeah they come and train

everything right away there is MMA gyms

and like from 2:00 to 3:00 it's

wrestling from 5:00 to 6:00 is

kickboxing from 7:00 to 8:00 is Muay

Thai and then jujitsu from 9:00 to 10:00

you know and they train all at the same

time so it's a complete fighter that

should be with be going man yeah see

like a standard that would be a standard

with mixed martial arts

I see how it makes sense

do it because it's the most effective

way of fighting and like having this

broad range of ability to combat against

all these different things it makes

sense for fighting but like with

breaking I think there's an argument to

be made that you're not you're not

necessarily you know the the the full I

guess how do you say maybe like full

package of b-boy one who has like every

single Power Move every single like

footwork move every single whatever I

think there's an argument to be made

that somebody who maybe doesn't do that

but has a strong certain part of you

know one of those styles and can be

effective against them because there's a

lot of creativity and artistry that

comes in with it and that's what you're

really being that that's what you're

that's that's the main way of I guess

winning a battle I guess is what I'm

saying like cuz in fighting you get

punched in the face and you get knocked

out or you get yes submitted you lose so

the best way to get to that is to be

able to defend against it and go and

attack that way right but in breaking

there's not like there's not a there's

not like a I guess a relation to

fighting in that way because you don't

necessarily need to do a specific power

move or whatever to win a battle or

whatever yeah I mean we don't have to do

5-1 and our flare so yeah and 90s you

know but at least have some basic power

moves you know because that part of

breaking you know if people say if you

don't do food work you know the b-boy

hey if you don't do windmill backspin

head spin thank you another b-boy - yeah

they were here before cc's you know what

I mean but I know what you mean with

like artistry and just own style you

know and everything

Maina for example yeah you know so yeah

yeah like Meno for instance he's does a

lot of like footwork and flowy type of

minutes not a lot of power

not a lot of top rods not a lot of I

mean that's kind of really the only

study he doesn't do a lot of freezes

either and then compared to let me pick

somebody someone who's missing one final

huh let's bc one final did you see that

who was in kazakhstan guy Oh

k2 lost something khaila

yes yeah yeah that guy is really good

you know you know I could see how it was

close I think actually men will probably

thought he lost too and that's why I

called him out four more rounds um I

mean I thought it was pretty close if I

was a judge I probably would have voted

Killa koyla me to it you know I'm not

judging because I personally just

thought that he he had brought more to

the table and had unique style he

suppresses doing was a lot of unique

freezes and stuff and he came out every

wrong with some new stuff easily you

know yeah he's a pretty well-rounded

b-boy but I would say he still airs on

you know more of like a thread type of

style and um like a freeze type of style

I'm trying to think of a b-boy that

would be like very very well-rounded and

that's it like um he's better soon he

has power I think which flips yes the

less food work yeah okay so let's go

with him yeah so him versus menace so

someone who's well rounded versus

someone who's very specialized I could

see how it could go either way with that

to those and that's also one round he

depends what round but you know let's

let's say they both throw their like

dopest around though right

you know Meno does some crazy like

loop-d-loop

spin around thing one mean the flowing

waves yeah and it's a really dope round

in their little zoo duck comes out

doesn't flip does power moves us some

freezes does some footwork hits a solid

round

I think there's an argument to be made

that either one of them would have won

you know it's awesome depends on the

music but I think this was mixed martial

arts he probably would have been like oh

the new well-rounded guy would win you

know but you know such distance

sometimes in MMA you know and then

judges take it yeah decided wrong but I

guess I guess if you in mixed martial

arts if you had a guy who's very good at

multiple styles versus one guy who's

maybe just good at let's say kickboxing

yeah you know I mean this is a hard to

predict example or anything but I would

say you probably would put your money on

the guy who's more well-rounded just

because he can like attack from multiple

angles

right and he could get this got the

other guy into a situation that that guy

cannot defend in whereas the other guy

is banking on being able to like keep

him in his in his world where he's the

best right whereas in breaking I feel

like the guy who's very specialized he

can still like blow you up the same

thing that the gut the guy who is very

well-rounded can still blow you up and

so the the moves are just as effective

in a way you know what I mean and the

strategy is a little bit different

because this guy doesn't need to keep

you in his pocket anymore he just needs

to perform and kill it right and this

guy needs to do basically the same thing

keep it in his pocket and do what he's

good at you know visually better yeah

that's been important but yeah what's

gonna make it look visually better is

the music you know the music I think

that's breaking what plays a big factor

that's the biggest compared to MMA oh

yeah yeah really breaking is hard too

but compared to any I think it's the

closest thing sports wise to compare

breaking with MMA I would say a decision

you cannot compare with soccer or

football there's not really a good

there's a sport I can think of that

everyone compares to the things that I

think make the most sense

is somewhere between mixed martial arts

and skateboarding or like something like

that there's a sports 3 the reason I say

like sporting because in a lot of that

has to do with like they'll they'll make

up a trick knee and go like this is what

I'm gonna do it's like yeah it's it's

just like making up your own breaking

yeah you know but then skateboarding

kind of it doesn't quite match up

because then you see okay

he's he says oh I'm gonna do this

tricking and they judge you on how well

you hit that trick but in breaking

you're not telling any judge what you're

gonna do you're gonna surprise them and

probably surprise them with the move

that they've never seen before

yeah and so you have this surprise

factor too so it's really hard to you

know nowadays I I miss the exchange

sometimes in battles you know yeah yeah

back in the days when I talked to storm

you know they they would do like and

that's how I grew up you know mm-hmm I

consider him the only master line

breaking it I never took his class or

something but I took his locking class

yeah but I I learned from him just by

listening you know okay and

conversations with him yeah I just

remember him you do like a six-step you

can go like no you try like Big Brother

and T you can learn so much and I can

listen for days to him you know yeah

when he talks III don't talk man I just

listen and then I ask something you know

but how I grew up with bounces exchange

you know for example he tells me like he

has somebody do flare windmill baby

freeze and then he goes footwork and

then ends it nice you know I have to go

there and I have to do flare window

flare windmill turtle and then go in a

freeze and then go up and you know what

I did better and then he has to come and

bring it never that's how we yeah you

know a burden that's like exchange you

know ace yeah

yeah on the podcast like a couple weeks

ago a couple of months ago actually um

he and he told me a story about when he

he doesn't call it battle but I would

say it probably was a battle between him

and storm mm-hmm when storm was visiting

and I guess they just went they you know

battle like 30-something rounds or

whatever and it was like that they were

just exchanging like they would just one

up each other each time and it wasn't

like they weren't you know you know

talking smack to each other it was they

were respecting each other and he would

be like oh that was dope let me show you

that I can do now did it do to do and

he'd go oh that's cool too and then this

is how I would do that boom and so they

just went back and forth for 30 rounds

it may seem I mean that's that's crazy

but it's also like back then it was like

practice you know yeah each other you

exchange and you know but when you

battle inside for like ladies generation

yeah and when the people start talking

when they're unsecured and then they see

that they're losing I have to talk to

him that so he messes up and you know

what I I hear that I made this rule with

shit-talking is I'm not gonna say

anything unless they say it but if they

do talk I'm gonna say the wildest thing

so that they feel terrible and so

because like I don't know I've always

been good at like talking shit to people

because I just I have a lot of friends

that we would do that to in battles it's

it's you know I always try to be very

respectful but as soon as somebody says

something I'm like okay I got I can make

and I usually don't make fun of their

breaking I usually just make I don't

like that part of breaking I think I

think it's I think it's kind of it's

it's taking the focus off of your

dancing and putting it more on your like

mind games which I don't you know I mean

I guess this in a way that's kind of how

great how battling is but I don't know I

and I don't like I don't think it's true

and I to to what it should be

yeah but like I said if somebody's gonna

take a shot at me I'm like well I'm 32 I

got I got nothing better to do let me

just talk yeah of course maybe you have

to defend yourself yeah but man my best

memory of call outs is I had a crew

member back in 2003 yeah thing around

Troy Kehoe was his name and somebody

called him out you know because he was

talking smack and he said yeah come on

okay now you you know give me 10 minutes

[Laughter]

because he was flexible he didn't want

to get the injury you know he needed to

warm up and then what yeah man give me

10 mins how did he call you is he like

no no another guy called my friend out

you know my friend said give me ten

minutes and then he he lost one time he

lost a battle and then he calls out boom

you know their friend you know it's fun

to get called up as long as like it's

not it's not fun when there's like beef

someone's trying to like cause some

trouble I think that gets kind of crazy

because in but you usually just turns

into a fight which I really don't like

in breaking there's like there's really

no room for violence

that's why you break right yeah so we

don't touch each other there's been a

lot of times where there's like

definitely my old crew flexible Flav we

would get into some crazy battles cuz

you know some crew would be beefing with

us and so then we'd get into a new

get crazy crazy cut everything escalated

and people with ok crew it start pushing

each other and then it's like you know

as soon as that happens it's like oh

this is gonna turn into a ok crew bells

yes we got many colors in crew bad ok

and we are like my crew and me we are

like produce most of them don't dance

regularly ok but we still like brothers

you know yeah but back then we crew

belts we belt like almost a lot of crews

almost many crews here yeah we go to

friends would bail like whoever is on

the opposite side you know we go to yes

America or Germany whatever whoever is

across us and they do something that we

do better we go inside and show way yeah

yeah and then it starts so so actually

this is something that probably got

deleted from because we didn't record

but you were talking about we first came

to America in 2007 for freestyle session

in 10 with my whole crew yeah and we

stayed the machete hostel on Hollywood

Boulevard

everybody talks about yeah it's funny

cuz like outside of Hollywood people are

probably like oh Hollywood's is great

dude it's like freaking bums pooping on

the streets and stuff it's all bad crazy

Hollywood yeah but yeah there's a lot of

shit was crazy em and to come here

freestyle session we grew up with those

tapes yeah yeah and so then once you

were here it was probably a big like

culture shock huh yeah that was the

first time you came to America second

time I came first time was 2003 in San

Diego okay it was like there is like a

heap of community company called culture

shock yeah you know if you know and that

was in the soup Switzerland culture

shock oh and we came to San Diego to

perform at the culture of showcase oh

that's cool okay then back then I bailed

actually I bailed rainin yeah raining

and

a long time yeah he's in Vegas Vegas and

all Cutshaw peoples of San Diego and my

friend that was a b-boy he didn't find

the way to the circle you know so I was

there alone

and I bet like three four B voice oh you

know but I did like my thing you know I

did like already elbow one and a half

and I need some car plates you know

because men in Europe I never started

dancing like on the street you know we

had a nice youth center we had nice wood

floor yeah you know so I came to shit

carpet oh man no it's been no 90s yeah

that was the first time it was a good

experience and then second time my we

came with my crew 2007 please let's I

shouldn't ten when did you decide to

live here

we came in 2010-11 new year when it was

very cold in Switzerland we came to LA

it was nice weather so my brother me we

came here to to practice and see how is

the industry because we take also

hip-hop classes also hip-hop and we saw

how how it is they industry you know and

we see b-boys here and they poke chop

movies and commercials and stuff like

man we can do some good stuff here you

know we decided to move here okay I want

to move here since a long time but 2014

was the time to move yeah make your

brother 2015 I don't know if I felt him

it was like a seven to smoke in that fit

Expo in convention center yeah that's

right he did surprising he doesn't

really battle that often so yeah we was

having fun man I like to start because

III I could see like yeah yeah he's

having fun you know it's not like trying

to kill that other guy in a bell you

know

yeah

that's good like when there is a big

difference if you have a funny style but

there is I I always watch the skills you

know if you have a funny character or a

serious character you watch how it

matches with the level of the skills you

know yeah and I said she has a level of

skills and he is having fun you know he

doesn't take it too serious you know he

doesn't need to take it too serious to

win around you know so that's why I like

it and I remember him like his style is

like kind of goofy and then him as a

person he's like more like serious and I

think that my style as a breaker is more

serious and my personality is probably

more goofy than him swiss-style

I always ask people can you tell that me

and him our brothers buy our style

no it's yeah I think if you look close

enough you can tell because we do a lot

of the same moves it's just he doesn't

we do them differently from and but we

you know we learned from the same people

we you know practice like every day

together

so it's weird how our Styles diverged

like that but I don't know yes more

flexible right he's he's more flexible

than me and I think I'm more like flowy

than him yeah and so and then I probably

do more power moves than him he does

more freezes than me but that's maybe

the main differences I mean my brother

my brother does everything more than me

[Laughter]

yeah so I guess in terms of like break

breaking for you now are you still into

competing or you just I haven't battled

in many years okay yeah I belt I think

maybe once or twice since I moved to

America oh really

yeah because I didn't move for battling

yeah yeah you know for the industry and

even my like last serious bad that we

you know with my crew and everything was

left year 2011 yeah because I had like a

crazy surgery I tore my biceps and

triceps ligament oh yeah I miss my arms

you know and that was a thing how do you

do a thousand 90s on that arm a lot of

physical therapy and yeah but in it was

actually in June it's gonna be ten years

ago that I thought I'm gonna stop

dancing yeah I'm gonna work a regular

job and that's it for me I lived a good

life and I enjoyed my hobby for many

years and that's it that's why I enjoy

now what I don't have to practice sets

or you know that I don't prepare for

social I just have fun you know yeah you

know I don't mind doing competitions

once in a while because it keeps it

keeps me like I don't know I guess it

keeps your both sides of the brain

working yeah yeah but for the most part

I just break to like you know relieve

stress and it's like a meditation for me

you know cuz training yeah it make it

make it forces me to stretch my my

creative brain you know so like when I

go to a practice a lot of times I'm just

I try to go into my own world and just

make up whatever I can and it's hard

it's hard to think about all the like

you know whatever stuff is going on in

your life when you're so focused on just

yeah cuz you can't really dance well if

there's something else on your mind you

know and a lot of times you feel like I

dance better when there is something

that was on my mind because it's like it

may it makes me try harder to like focus

on the music and everything you try to

get that out of yeah excited you by

getting this out of you focus here yeah

and then verse writer yeah well in a lot

of times it's because you go like I

gotta focus on this and if I don't I'm

gonna think of something crappy oh I

don't wanna think about that let me just

do this

it's like kind of a nicely practice yes

before I started talking to you and you

always practice for yourself and do ya

know yeah I think in I yeah and a lot of

times I just focus on that and then you

know if someone wants to talk to me or

whatever I'll talk about like most of

the time I don't really go too far out

of my way to like talk to people I mean

cuz I used to just practice alone I

wasn't living in Sacramento and in

Oakland I would just go to the gym and

practice by myself like maybe once or

twice a week I'd go practice with some

other people but most of the time I'd

just be by myself where do you get the

motivation from to practice by yourself

I think it's just I like creating stuff

okay and so you can practice like hard

stuff just to create I mean I'll

practice hard stuff sometimes but yeah

it'll be it'll be a lot of times

it lets me I don't have any other

distractions anymore so it's like I can

go okay I really want to get this move

so I can practice you know what I need

to do and then I can like adjust my hand

position or whatever when I'm with a

bunch of people there's always like it's

more playful to me where there's like a

little bit of I need to perform I need

to you know react to what they're doing

too so it's it's always it's more of an

exchange kind of environment going on by

myself it's just I'm only doing what I'm

doing

you focus on yourself yeah it's I have I

have a lot of fun doing that

yeah it's probably my favorite part of

breaking actually my favorite part is

practicing with my crewmen uh-huh yeah

because like everybody like pushes each

other you know yeah and we don't have to

worry about practicing anything so

anybody else could practice that or

that's how it goes you know we push each

other you know oh um okay well dude

we've been going for like 56 minutes oh

shoot probably wrap this show up there's

a lot I can still talk to you

I don't want to go too long probably

yeah well is there anything else you

want to say before we close the show

where can people find you here oh yeah

it's the old one it works pretty well

though and I got that too

Oh yep go for a - it's not there yeah no

I I bought this because I told myself I

need to start filming myself breaking

more yeah because I seriously had like

no footage of myself because I never

really filmed myself cuz ya know it's

just I don't it's just not something I

normally do so I bought that to film

myself in it

maybe you filmed for like a couple weeks

and then I just got sick of it and so I

don't I don't really use it and then

when I started this show like oh I got

an extra camera now so I have the DJI

pocket Pro no pocket and the small DJI

fits with the camera and everything okay

and I used it a couple times yeah

okay it does also have white you and

everything okay but I know minutes I

record with my phone most of the things

my phone doesn't have any space in it

because I have a ton of music in there

so it's like but you can put an extra SD

card no I have extra I got I'm like

really into music oh you to beat I make

yeah I make music and then I just listen

to lots of music I guns I love you know

man I seriously can talk that's another

man I mean for now yeah I like jasmine

you do yeah yeah

since everybody calls me ill jazz in

America I know but for me I don't know

man I think I like martial arts I always

liked like Jackie Chan Bruce Lee John

yang and then music wise I always liked

Stevie Wonder Tupac

oh yeah yeah that was like my LL Cool J

yeah you know and then

he was dope sports-wise and human is

Muhammad Ali's Muhammad Ali okay those

are your influences this is my

combination of what I yeah and but

before that God

I've always loved Jackie Chan cuz I got

just mr. past he doesn't give off man I

think he's gonna be appreciated more

when he dies oh yeah dude he's already

appreciated yeah God that guy but man

his legacy I feel like man needs he same

with Bruce Lee yeah yeah you know uh you

know because Bruce Lee's kind of you

know I think we made mixed martial arts

because the idea of it kind of it was

already around but it wasn't mainstream

by any means but he just kind of that's

that was what he was all about was this

is or the I guess it wasn't called mixed

martial arts at that time but it was

just like the idea of pulling pieces of

every martial art that makes you better

that was he kind of brought it to the

mainstream yeah but I think Jean Van

Damme is the best fine Johnson what's

that freakin movie kickboxers was it

breaking oh yeah breaking he was like

each he's like that's his first step

into Hollywood it was like I mean that

movie sucks but yeah I never owned it I

there was a bunch of b-boys I knew back

in the day that would say you'd ask him

what their favorite movie was and

they're like breaking and I was like

breaking and beats me they would say

break in do you like them

like it's like a parody of hip-hop like

it's so freakin goofy I mean I don't

know I just wanted to make some money

man I don't see some producers they saw

some kids seeing something where they

can make money okay throw some money

money back yeah it's it I mean all I can

see is I don't wanna hate on it but it's

so over-the-top goofy they're like I

can't get me how many movies are there

of this breaking one day there's only

two or to break into electric Boogaloo I

think that's it there might be a third

one I don't know I honestly watch them

once and I was like what am I doing with

my life I need I need to go practice

what am i watching this crap and I grew

up with Battle of teir VHS tapes

yeah yeah right that that was the stuff

I'd rather watch it's not all the year I

watched one of the old freecell says

yeah yeah when you could only get the

VHS tapes it wasn't any YouTube so there

was like a man fuck VHS man I still have

a lot of VHS tapes yeah my god all right

so I switch on it okay I got I've got a

bunch here I think um yeah like Lords of

the floor I have and they're the old

style elements video there used to be

like absolutely made b-boys session

Germany it was kind of like PC one man

oh yeah yeah there was like b-boys all

over the world one was swamp battles

yeah that was cool but battle of tier 96

man it's my first yes yes it's very good

it's still good yeah yeah and I miss

quad versus Tyson effect I was a swiss

crew it's the only time is Swiss crew

one rest in peace - nice kid he was

right here yeah he did like that's I do

sometimes the head spin with ball and

peace yeah yeah and me and my brother

met him and we were very young

yeah and his crew came to our city to

train with buzzcity attack and he was

the only guy approaching

us you know yeah and he was pushing us

and yeah you know like teachers liked

how to do better head spin and you know

moves just like the only guy talking to

us even we were just kids you know yeah

and then we from Tenali wow man you are

this guy and you talked to us and was

there another seamless crew that was

really popular back then that went to

battle of the year they didn't win but I

think they got third place or something

I don't remember yeah scrambling feet

scrambling feet yeah yeah yeah that's

his crew yeah that's nice kid with tough

kid he joined them too from bad

Lafayette they bailed South Africa I

think so I should actually go to the

final and battle flying steps yeah that

would have been a crazy battle and when

he came to freestyle sessions Easter

break yeah instant breaks man is now

he's like pushing the community in Basel

you know in our city and they put us

young kids and like a community center

with dance you know can yeah it's it's

there's good things you know okay well

yeah peace well before we do that is

there what's your like Instagram or

where can people like talk my so Grammy

select my name yes I change a Instagram

and anywhere else you want to give any

shoutouts shout-out to my crew

Roughnecks and shout out all my friends

that know me and

all right thank you guys Robinson sorry

this show sucks and I don't know how to

press the record but it's red it's

recording I know at least I got that

right the second time

all right let's everybody eight

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you

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